WBUR's Simón Rios speaks with two former immigration judges — Art Arthur, a fellow in law and policy at The Center for Immigration Studies; and George Pappas, the principal owner of Pappas Legal, PLLC representing clients in Western North Carolina and nationwide in U.S. immigration law — about recent shifts in immigration policy, and whether we’re witnessing lawlessness or a controversial interpretation and enforcement of existing laws. This con…